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shaggydan wins! shaggydan beat bluetenille 9 to 1
Buffy Season 4 vs. Buffy Season 2
bluetenille said
When I need a Buffy fix. I grab Season 4 every time. Its brought us the ep. Fear, Itself which had me super scared and lol. Superstar Jonathan. Anya and Spike as regulars. Introduction of Tara. Giles as a demon! The Gentlemen. Chipped Spike. These are just off the top of my head.
shaggydan said
Those are all highlights, to be sure, but when I think of the power of the Buff, I think of how the story arch of the second season changed those characters forever. It was when Zander started to become dark, when Giles began to be tortured and defiant against the advice of the council, when Willow first looked to the powers of magic, and most importantly- and most dramatically- Buffy lost that sense of innocence that held her up until that point.
Angelus took a lot away from Buffy in that season, and started her down the path that she would reside in for the rest of the show.
It was an incredibly important season for everyone involved.
bluetenille said
How about when she and the gang tapped into the power of the first slayer to defeat Adam. It helped her refocus on her calling as a slayer and to have a deeper connection with all slayers. Willow fully threw herself into magic and we got to see her realize her power with help from Tara. Season 2 started it but it was front and center in Season 4. Besides how cool was it when Buffy turn bullets into birds and Willow was sought after by Anya's former boss.
shaggydan said
I've been thinking of the smartest way to reply, trying to decide on the best single place to begin a conversation on something tangible between these two seasons, and I think I've got it...
Angel was a far more interesting character- and influence- than Riley.
Thoughts?
bluetenille said
I'm not a Riley fan myself. But he gave her the best shot she had at normalcy. Wasn't that what Buffy always desired. To balance life out and allow her to be a normal teenage girl. That was the only reason I rooted for him was for her. Angel as a character alone is more interesting. But Riley provided something Buffy deserved a normal relationship however brief is was.
With the S4 mystery of the initiative (314 & adam) and stand out episodes like Hush and Primeval. Faith returning and with the body swap twist. Season 4 embodies the best of the Buffyverse. At least for me.
shaggydan said
I'm a little surprised you haven't played up Hush a bit more than you have, as I see that as roughly the best one off episode they had, however, I think that while 'Buffy, the College Years' was a good season, I guess I just never felt like the stakes were quite as high as it was in season two.
I know that I've been harping on it in this throwdown, but I keep coming back to Angelus. Its an excellent example of what Whedon does well. He takes what is otherwise standard storylines (girl falls in love with a boy, sleeps with him, he turns into an jerk), boils it down into what makes the storyline effective (a emotional betrayal) and then uses supernatural (or an otherwise overtly unusual) methods to amplify the intensity of said root elements (Angelus was maybe the ultimate big bad of the series).
I do like a lot of what is accomplished in season four, but season two is, to me, the best orf the series.
Like this throwdown?
Episode Recaps
Poll: Cop shows (Part 2)
What was the best cop show on TV from 1998 to 2008?
From EW.com
Comments
Allimuffin 03/14/08
Season 2 allllllll the way.
It had the better, scarier big bad (actually the way better, scarier big bad), Spike AND Drusilla doing what they do best, and the heartbreaking Buffy/ Angel relationship.
Season 4 had Riley (woop de doo), Adam (totally not that scary), and Spike as a series regular, though he wasn't as well used as he was in 2 (or even in his one Season 3 appearance).
Season 2 eats Season 4 for breakfast.
RobGrizzly 03/14/08
Buffy got better and better season after season, But the latter half of that year was dissapointingly uneven to me. I didn't like Riley much, I hated his partner who hated Buffy, and Anya was a little annoying. I think that was the year some of the cast split for Angel, but you could feel that Buffy the show itslelf was going through some weird changes. It starts off good, but the second half veers from hipster to campy
Austen Geek 03/15/08
Season four was probably the weakest of all the seasons with the exception of the disappointing season seven. Adam was ridiculous as the season's Big Bad, and the Initative was a decent idea that went nowhere. Probably the only thing the season had going for it was the return of Spike.
Season two, on the other, was the season that really made me a fan. "Surprise," "Innoncence," "Becoming," and ,what I consider to be Buffy's best episode ever, "Passion" all came out of season two. It was also the season that showed "Buffy" was not afraid of changing everything the viewers came to expect.
I'll watch season two over four any day.
huzzah 03/16/08
Yeah, there were a few good eps in season 4, but as a whole season 2 gets my vote.
abridgma 03/17/08
Season 4 was the worst season of Buffy, although it had some nice highlights. But man, forcing Riley on us as the worst possible Angel replacement, the ENTIRE Initiative subplot stinkin' up the place, the pure lame-ness of Adam, and the awkward introduction into college-life made it difficult. Also, it has two of the worst Buffy episodes ever in it: Beer Bad and the one where Buffy and Riley nearly screw themselves to death inside the Jumanji house.
Allimuffin 03/17/08
Oh my gosh, I almost forgot about "Where The Wild Things Are". That was a terrible episode. Can I nominate that as the worst episode from any season?
OzzieAlThor 03/17/08
Sorry Blue. You picked the weakest season of them all. 4 is worse then 6. I liked all the seasons.
Best to worse: 3, 5, 7, 2, 1 6, 4
OzzieAlThor 03/17/08
I'd also point out my favorite episode of the whole series is "Hush". "once more with Feeling" is a close second. SO even withh that, 4 is the weakest.
Moononastring 03/17/08
Allimufin - worse than Beer Bad?
Season 4 had some really bad episodes...but also some good ones. What made it bad was the tone of the season, mostly due to the annoying Adam sublot (Worst Big Bad ever) and the prescence of boring Riley. However, I have to say that my least favorite season has to be 7, not even because it was that bad, but because it was my FAR the least memorable. Except for the finale, I can't remember a SINGLE season 7 episode, and I've seen the entire season twice. I felt it was by far the most unremarkable season.
bluetenille 03/17/08
I'll give you beer bad and where the wild things are. But ya gotta give me some assembly required and reptile boy and heck throw in bad eggs too. It feels weird comparing but I guessing I have a different perspective than most.
But it has given me an idea for a new throwdown.
bluetenille 03/17/08
Okay I can't decide how to word and chose for the throwdown. So I'm gonna hand the idea over. Who is the biggest and best big bad of them all? I'm not talking about most popular either. Break it down. I want to chose Glory I mean she was a Hell God. But then you have the First. It's like which came first the chicken or the egg.
trex 03/17/08
WORST BIG BAD? Angelus...not for an episode, nor for a season. Permeating everything, one way or another.
Allimuffin 03/17/08
I didn't mind "Reptile Boy, "Some Assembly Required", or "Bad Eggs" nearly as much as "Where the Wild Things Are". I can only guess that it was the ick factor of sex with Riley. At least the season 2 episodes had the presence of Angel. Season 4 was the 'growing pains' season, and I think that accounts for a lot of the uneven episodes towards the end. "Hush" is a fablous episode though, and the two-parter where Buffy and Faith switch bodies wasn't too shabby either.
I agree that Season 7 was lacking, but there were a few memorable episodes other than the finale; "Storyteller", "Lies My Parents Told Me", and even "Beneath You".
I like your idea for a throwdown. I'll save my comments for that board!
Moononastring 03/18/08
Bad Eggs is pretty bad, but I acually don't mind Reptile Boy.
And for me, Angelus was by far the best Big Bad.
trex 03/18/08
Of course you understand that by WORST BIG BAD, I mean BEST BIG BAD.
abridgma 03/18/08
Best big bads: Angelus, The Mayor, Dark Willow/The Trio, Glory, The First, Fruit punch mouth (The Master), and then Adam, who initially wasn't even suppose to be the Big Bad of the season. The doctor who created him was supposed to be, sorry I can't remember her name, but something forced her to drop out and they had to re-scramble the season. I would have ranked Glory higher had it not been for dumpy Ben, who was pretty much just Riley 2.0 but with jokes like him waking up in a dress. Plus, the little demon Glory-lovers got reeeal annoying reeeal fast.
trex 03/18/08
p.s you are welcome.....
bluetenille 03/18/08
Its the ick factor with Riley. And I'll give you Glory's minions. I just enjoy everything I listed in the first post. But I'll be honest I could got to bat for each season. Moononastring - Season 7 dude. I with Allimuffin. And may I add the chill inducing end of the first ep. With all the big bads circling Spike. The mood will hit me and I've gotta watch it. Buffy vs. Anya. And showtime with buffy showing the potentials how bad **** she is. OH man and don't forget the shadow box in get it done. Isn't that when Spike breaks out the leather duster again? Well let's just face I love the show.
bluetenille 03/18/08
shaggydan- Hush is amazing but I didn't want to rely just on it. What can I say I'm glutton for punishment. Its been fun.
chilekat 03/23/08
Excellent throwdown. Slow golf clap for all.
Interesting that in the argument for, Chipped Spike was mentioned as a positive point for season 4 because I really think S4 was the beginning of the complete destruction of that character. Neutered Spike was a travesty that eventually led to the sad sack we saw on the screen in S7. Spike as a good guy hero? Hell to the naw! I mean, I enjoyed the S6 hate sex with Buffy as much as anyone else. Well, maybe a little bit more than anyone else. Ok, a lot more than anyone else. But I digress. The Spike of School Hard would have bitchslapped S7 Spike before stringing him up and letting Drusilla make him her new dolly.
Can you tell I was a huge early season Spike fangirl?
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