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demetrithegreek wins! demetrithegreek beat rmiriam12 19 to 15
British Television is better than American Television
rmiriam12 said
Here are some reasons why I think British TV is currently better than American TV with an example for each reason.
1. Their seasons and series are shorter (6-13 eps), leading to better writing and quality overall. Shows also bow out before they get played out (Life on Mars, The Office).
2. Their Reality shows are more camp, adjust better between series and live out to their fuller potential than ours (Big Brother, The X Factor).
3. They have alcohol for their guests on chat shows (Graham Norton, Al Murray's Happy Hour).
4. Their actors flow more easily between film, theatre and TV, leading to high quality actors on their programmes (Judi Dench, Helen Mirren).
5. Their soaps are still among the top rated shows in the UK, and have managed to maintain their relevance, unlike in the US (Eastenders, Hollyoaks).
6. We import a lot of their shows and try to Americanize them, mostly to dismal results (Coupling, Viva Laughlin, Men Behaving Badly to name a few).
Upshot: The originals are vastly better overall, and if our TV had enough quality to offer, we wouldn't have to import theirs.
demetrithegreek said
Let me address each of your points.
1. I agree that in some cases short runs are all you need, but the 6 to 13 episode model would never allow for something like Lost or 24.
2. Nobody needs reality television, and you should be shot for refrencing reality in this debate.
3. Alcohol is great if I get some. If I don't, then I don't care if anyone else does.
4. By "high quality" I assume you mean big names. That doesn't impress me. I would rather see someone do a good job than have a show bring in the big name of the moment. However, I will say that Sean Penn has been on Two and a Half Men, Charleze Theron was on Arrested Development and just about everyone has been on Law & Order.
5. Soaps are for old women. Who cares?
6. There is no denying that we import a lot of their shows, but some of your examples (Viva Laughlin and Coupling) would have never made it here anyway.
I am not saying that we don't rip off English TV from time to time, but the English also have some real garbage. Absolutely Fabulous anyone? If I may quote drunk fans at the olympics - "USA, USA, USA!"
rmiriam12 said
Back at ya:
1. But even the biggest fan would admit that some of our best shows like 24 and Lost and BSG have had some real clunkers in the mid-section of their seasons. With shorter, tighter story arcs, the chances of those clunkers slipping in go away. Case in point - the strike shortened seasons have led to some better quality episodes and tighter stories so far (Lost, Heroes, Jericho to name 3).
2,3,5: By referencing soaps, chat shows & reality TV I was showing the entire breadth of TV to support my argument. If we are just comparing our Dramas vs their Dramas or Comedies vs Comedies, that's a different discussion.
And it is true that most of our Reality shows are based on their concepts and I still maintain that they execute them better.
4. I was citing examples of stars as series regulars on shows - your examples are guest starring roles.
6. It is true that the culture of the audiences are different, but maybe if we just imported the shows as is, without having the need to change what was already a good show they would have been successful here.
PS - Um, Ab Fab is awesome. Don't rag on Patsy & Edina. Ever. And we Americanized that one too (Cybil).
demetrithegreek said
I will concede to point number 4. You make a fair point there.
Moving on...I don't think you can say with a straight face that Heroes turned in a season that was anything more than crap! Even Tim Kring will admit that his crew had to cram too much into too short of a run. Comedy Central tends to follow the British model with their shows. Seasons last about 8 - 10 episodes and what does that lead to? A bunch of God awful shows!
What I was getting at with your third point is that I don't understand how giving someone alcohol makes a show better. I am not accusing you of anything, but that is the kind of thing that is important to a high school kid or a frat boy. It doesn't make a show better or worse. You don't need to be drinking to be nailed by Dr. Stephen T. Colbert, DFA.
Finally, your sixth point suggests that Americans are at fault for not liking British humor. It's cultural snobbery! If you brought a British show to the US and didn't change anything half of the jokes would go over 99% of the audience's head. Just the same, jokes from 30 Rock or My Name is Earl would be lost on the majority of a British audience.
rmiriam12 said
Since this is the last shot, I'll address the last argument and summarize. I think demitrithegreek is focusing too much on the comedies. My argument is that British Television is better than American television as a whole.
When it was sure the strike was coming, Heroes got it together at the end and delivered a tighter finish. I don't disagree that the start of the season was bad (also supporting my argument that the Brits are better). I also disagree with you on the Comedy Central assertion. Reno 911, Sarah Silverman, South Park & other shows all are better as shortened seasons.
With the alcohol point, you are correct that it alone doesn't make a show better. The point I was driving at is that British TV (chat shows, reality, dramas especially) isn't constrained by the conservatism of US broadcasters, and thus allows for more risky envelope-pushing content. I think that in the case of UK TV vs American TV, again as a whole, this has proved beneficial to their shows.
I recognize that this is an uphill climb, as many American viewers haven't seen as much UK TV as me, but because of the reasons cited above, I still think they have more diverse, better quality programs.
demetrithegreek said
You're probably right that I am focusing a little too much on comedy. I have one final point on that matter, but first let's talk reality shows, as it was pointed out that I may have been a little harsh when it comes to your point regarding reality TV. Every reality show that is exported from England seems to be a competition or talent show. There is little deviation from that formula. Certainly those kind of shows are popular here in the US as well, but there are also options like Mythbusters and Dirty Jobs that do a better job of storytelling without everything having to be interactive.
I understand what you're saying about alcohol and American conservatisim, and I agree it can be a pain in the ****, but that isn't something that is exclusive to television. It is just a cultureal difference in American and European society.
Let me finish the argument by quoting the biggest star in British TV comedy, Ricky Gervais, who said about American TV in an interview with the Opie and Anthony show "I love it. It's better than British TV. Series are bigger and everything in America feels like an event. In England it all feels like something to pass the tim
Like this throwdown?
Episode Recaps
Poll: Cop shows (Part 2)
What was the best cop show on TV from 1998 to 2008?
From EW.com
Comments
OzzieAlThor 03/19/08
The 4 best British shows I have seen are "Have you been served", "Monty Python", "The Black Adder" series and the original set of episodes for "Mr. Bean".
4 shows. Congratulations.
OzzieAlThor 03/19/08
The Office was funny but I liked those other 4 alot better.
TVTalker 03/19/08
Between Doctor Who and Torchwood, I have to give the edge to England.
The Counteragent 03/19/08
I agree that American television is better, but I can't really vote for someone who says their opponent should be shot for referencing reality TV. Seriously? Calm down, dude! It'd be more effective to bring up Project Runway and Top Chef as good examples to counter the ridiculously dumb British reality TV.
HoneyBunny 03/19/08
This is an interesting ThrowDown. I think it's biased toward America because- "How many Americans watch British TV?" I watch the BBC channel sporadically and some of the shows on PBS but ...
Come on! TV is so American! I Love Lucy, Happy Days, Seinfeld, The Simpsons, The Cosby Show, Bugs Bunny, 60 Minutes, The Tonight Show with Johnny Carson, The Oscars, MTV (the 1980s), Sopranos, MASH, All In The Family, Oprah, The Carol Burnett Show, Buffy The Vampire Slayer, The Mary Tyler Moor Show, Xena, Soap, The Six Million Dollar Man, Everybody Loves Raymond,Will & Grace,Moonlighting, 24, LOST...
Reruns of Benny Hill and The New Adventures of Doctor Who just can't compare.
Joan Lee 03/19/08
I completely agree. BBC America is one of my favorite stations and with Robin Hood, Wire in the Blood and new episodes of Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde on board...how can you lose!!!
Another thing, I have a 'mad' crush on John Barrowman which does me no good because we all know he ****! Oh well.
jkcampbell 03/19/08
Most of the American reality shows are based off of British ones.
RobGrizzly 03/19/08
British TV and American TV both cater to different types of humor, sensibilities, etc. What works over there just might not work over here in the same exact way- without alterations. The thing is, alot of British shows are imported here, unchanged, and only a handful of people watch them. If they were so much better, wouldn't more people be watching?
jkcampbell 03/19/08
Shortened seasons sometimes do work better. The first season of BSG may still be its best and that was 12-13 episodes. Shows often struggle to fill a complete season order of 22 episodes, which is why there is the occasional clunker.
The biggest show in the UK is Doctor Who. It gets critical acclaim, all sorts of awards, and is extremely popular. What are the biggest shows in the US? Grey's Anatomy? American Idol?
I'd take the Doctor any day.
Mr. Strong 03/21/08
Are you having a laugh?
DRS248 03/21/08
I have to second Honey Bunny - TV IS so American! I catch British TV shows occasionally, but to be honest, I'm mostly interested in their movies and specials. Their actual shows don't really hold my interest. But, I have to agree that there is something to be said for the shorter seasons. The thing I think American TV can learn from British TV is to take it on a case by case basis. Some shows last forever, some are short and sweet. If the American television industry didn't have a one size fits all model for season length, we might get some more unusual concepts and shows.
rmiriam12 03/21/08
Thanks for all your comments! Whatever happens, it's been a good discussion for sure, and there was so much I couldn't get to in the space allotted.
I'm pretty proud of my arguments for my first shot at a throwdown, and I tried to pull it off without mentioning my favorite show (Doctor Who), or my new TV crack (Skins).
BurgGurl 03/21/08
There are a lot of very, very good UK classics i.e. Monty, AbFab, Young Ones, Black Adder, Bean and yes, we have ripped off a lot of UK shows - granted, but not every show would fare well in the US as its charm is that it is "foreign". I have watched telly on both sides of the Atlantic and have enjoyed both offerings equally (Casualty, Eastenders, My Family, that one about the hairdressers (forgive me for forgetting, it's been over four years now) , Changing Rooms - Laurence Llewelyn Bowen and "Handy" Andy Kane - my my!, Cash in the Attic, all had my interest - BUT - the U.S. has had some really great stuff too, Sopranos, SATC, Dexter, LOST!!, we were also able to take The Office and make it very enjoyable in its own right (without forgetting its roots), Rescue Me and the CSI and L&O franchises (you get my point, I could go on) stand on their own. So to say UK shows as a whole outweigh US shows is just false, our networks work overtime to crank out programming to the point of losing a LOT of excellent shows too. Think: Freaks & Geeks, Arrested Development, Jericho, Sons & Daughters, Raines, Third Watch...
demetrithegreek 03/22/08
I have to agree with rmiriam. You're probably not going to change either of our opinions on the subject, but however the voting turns out this was a really fun and interesting throwdown.
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