OzzieAlThor  03/21/08

Lindsey was a ticking time bomb. It was only a matter of time before he went bad again. I was never convinced he was going to stay "good" personally. It is unique that he was shot. Of all the stuff that happened ob both Angel and Buffy, people were only shot twice and both we're... "Wow" type momenbts too.

CptSassyPants  03/21/08

I think the whole point of Lorne killing Lindsey was to show the change in Lorne. The type of person (demon) he had become over the course of series. He started out more upbeat and ended up being worn down and depressed. That scene said alot more about Lorne then it ever did about Lindsey and Angel's relationship.

hmorsey  03/21/08

I think it was obvious that Lorne didn't want to kill anyone, though, I thought. It seemed to me that Lorne was just following orders to help "the team" out but then he was leaving them because he didn't like the new direction that they had turned.

Melissalane  03/22/08

What a terrific throwdown topic. I've always been torn about this.

chilekat  03/23/08

If I remember correctly, Lorne had heard Lindsey sing and read him, so he knew that it was only a matter of time before Lindsey went bad again. Not thought based on past evidence, but knew. That's what led to the need to kill him. Having said that, I think it cost Lorne tremendously to do it and definitely drove him away from the team. But during that last battle, I don't think any of them assumed that they were going to get out alive anyway. (And really, how many of them did after that last alley battle? Guess we'll never know) Angel asked Lorne to do it because he knew Lorne was the only one who could get close enough to Lindsey without raising his suspicions to do it. Also, the other members of the team were off taking care of other missions doing things that Lorne couldn't do. As much as it cost Lorne to do it, I always assumed that it cost Angel just as much to ask him. But when you're in the realm of needing to know the plural of apocalypse, you do what has to be done.

hmorsey  03/26/08

Damn, he only did one argument and Im still getting killed in this argument...its tough to take a minor characters side over the main character of a show ;)

chilekat  03/27/08

I think the main bone I have to pick with your argument is that Angel didn't have Lorne kill Lindsey just because he didn't like Lindsey or because he was holding a grudge. He knew (from Lorne's reading) that Lindsey was going to go bad again. So even though Lindsey was helping them at the time, Angel had to take him out. He didn't have any other choice. Had it just been a personal grudge, I'm pretty sure Angel would've let Lindsey live to strum his guitar another day.

So, once the necessity to kill Lindsey was established, who else besides Lorne was gonna do it? Angel and Connor were off killing the Wolfram and Hart bigwigs. Lorne definitely couldn't have done that what with the not having of the super strength and not being immortal and all. Wesley had to go kill magic demon man (and Ilyria had to go try to futilely save Wes). Again, Lorne couldn't have done it, not being so much with the dark magics or with the strength of a trans-dimensional god creature with no conscience. Gunn had to take out a nest of political vampires. Not a task for Lorne. Spike had to save the baby sacrifice from other demon types. Could Lorne have done that? Nope. And Cordy was all dead and stuff, so no help from those quarters. So who did that leave Angel with if not Lorne? He had to do it. Angel has made a lot of dick moves in his time. I just don't think this was one of them.

hmorsey  03/27/08

There are plenty of humans that "go bad" though, and Angel doesn't kill them. That's just what really gets me and thinks he does it because of a personal grudge. I've used the Knox example numerous times...I think he was much more deserving of an execution. Lindsay hadn't really done anything. And they could have just killed Lindsey before their big missions and Lorne could have done his solo...unless of course they needed Lindsey...which in that case, he was helping out there team once again and didnt deserve to be killed....

chilekat  03/28/08

Hmm, I guess I just think Lindsey had already done so many awful evil things that Knox was not any "worse" or "better". They both were bad. And even if I go with the notion that Lindsey was helping the gang out (and I obviously he did), well, one good act doesn't wipe the slate clean or buy you a shot at redemption. That's kinda the point of Angel's whole existence. Is Angel a thin worth saving? Even after all those years and all the good deeds he's done? Is he a righteous man?

One of the things that I most enjoyed about Angel was the grayness and moral ambiguity of all of the characters on the show. I mean, Angel left a roomful of lawyers locked up and presumably about to be slaughtered by Dru and Darla as recently as Season Two. He ain't yo momma's hero. He often made expedient decisions, which is what was inherently interesting about him as a hero and what was inherently interesting about the show. Wes kept a woman tied up in his closet . . . with a bucket. Cordy? Not that nice, and, oh yeah, became an evil goddess. Lorne didn't have a ton of qualms about who he let in his bar, just as long as they kept the violence outside. He was no fluffy bunny saint.

I think Lindsey deserved to die, not only for what he was going to do in the future when he went bad again (as he would have since Lorne had seen it in his song) but for what he had already done. Why let him help you? Why not? Angel was one of the most "ends justifies the means" kind of shows that I've ever seen on TV. It seemed totally in character for all of the players involved that it went down the way it did.