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hmorsey wins! hmorsey beat Nialle 5 to 3
Ben Linus on Lost is TV's most evil villian ever.
Nialle said
I know he keeps saying he's one of the "good guys", but that's what makes him so evil. He has ways of making people do eaxctly what he wants.
I think this week's episode of "Meet Kevin Johnson" is a prime example of his cold-blooded evil-ness as he sends everyone his daughter cares about to their deaths.
hmorsey said
I think that there are many villains more evil than Ben Linus. Sure he's definitely a bad guy, but he's done nothing that makes me think he's worthy of the most evil villain ever title. I can think of many tv characters more evil and cold and calculating than he is: Angelus(Angel, BtVS), The First(Btvs), Sloane(Alias), Warren(BtVS, Dan(OTH)Tess(Roswell)...just to name a few. He's a **** bag, for sure...but definitely not the msot evil villain ever.
Nialle said
It's obvious you're a Buffy fan, and I don't think I've ever seen an episode all the way through, so I'm not going to get myself in a Buffy argument I can't win. :) However, Ben is more evil than sci-fi-type characters like vampires because he's, believe it or not, more realistic.
Ben has all kinds of money at his disposal. I believe that he faked the wreckage of Oceanic 815. So he has access to whatever he wants and can come and go anywhere in the world he may be needed. He's a leader who lies to his people, orders murders without even blinking, and he is able to get into people's heads.
I know I may be at a disadvantage here because I'm taking Ben Linus vs. Everyone Else in History, but if you're even a small Lost fan, you have to vote Ben on this one.
hmorsey said
Haha, yeah, definitely a Buffy fan, but one of the Buffy examples I used was of someone with no supernatural powers at all, Warren. He was simply a human being who killed and attempted rape with no remorse whatsoever. So if you want a non-supernatural being example, if that would be more realistic for you, I think he would suffice. Also Dan from One Tree Hill is human and also much more calculating and manipulative and just plain evil than Ben is. Dan killed his brother in cold blood, even. And Sloane on Alias also had no supernatural powers and I still found him to be more evil than Ben. I'm more than a small Lost fan, but I have to disagree with you on this one, I think there are many characters more evil than Ben, human or otherwise...
Nialle said
Part of Ben's evil-ness is that you're a little unsure about whether he's really truly evil. I know this doesn't seem to make sense, but he is such a master manipulator that he's got some people convinced he's really not that bad!
Ben had Walt kidnapped and used him to manipulate Michael into completing his own agenda. He uses mind-control to make visions appear that can make people do whatever he wants. He shot Locke and Charlotte. In "Through the Looking Glass" , ordered Sayid and Jin to be killed all in a master manipulation plan. If you believe the Freighter Folk, he staged the wreckage of Oceanic 815, making hundreds of families all believe their loved ones were dead. He sent Goodwin, Rousseau, and poor Karl to their death.
Perhaps the best argument I have is the fact that the character of Ben is so superbly evil-y acted by Michael Emerson. Emerson's choices with his facial expressions, his voice, and his mannerisms make Ben so creepy, quietly, evil that you might underestimate how truly bad he really is. Which of course, makes him that more evil!
hmorsey said
I'll agree with you that the guy is evil and he is quite manipulative...I just think that I've seen much more evil characters than him. And I don't really know of many people on the show that don't think he's evil...the majority of them know him for who he is. As for my "human" examples of evil people if you want to go the "realistic" route....Sloane on Alias wrongly ordered the death of many innocent people and killed his daughter the Counteragent pointed out. I dont see Ben ever being evil enough to kill his own daughter. And Dan on OTH killed his own brother in cold blood, abandoned his son as well as saying to his face that his mother should have aborted him, as well as ruining countless people's lives. I think both are much more evil villains.
Like this throwdown?
Episode Recaps
Poll: Cop shows (Part 2)
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From EW.com
Comments
double_agent 03/22/08
Benjamin Linus beats 'em all. He's a whole lot worse than just a **** bag; he's a supernatural killer who cares nothing about others and only about himself. He doesn't let anything or anyone get in the way of what he wants. He tortures people like Michael: he won't let him escape the horrors still hanging over him after leaving the Island, but rather drag it out so he can perform a task that may endanger the lives of everyone but Ben, and maybe a few disciples. There is no matching his cold blooded, no heart-no soul ways.
demetrithegreek 03/22/08
I think you're all forgetting about President Charles Logan. That guy was one crazy ****!
Mr. Strong 03/23/08
Good point, demitri.
I'm not sure if Ben is the most evil, but definitely the most interesting (as was a throwdown a few weeks ago, I believe). He's not quite evil, per se, but far from a good guy.
The Counteragent 03/23/08
Ben may have killed his daughter's loved ones, but Arvin Sloane killed his daughter. So yeah, I'm pretty confident that Sloane is the most evil villain ever. Even within the realm of Lost, I really think Charles Widmore is more evil than Ben, honestly.
scarsandstories8 03/23/08
Um.... hello? Have we forgot about the Heroes big bads? Sylar? Linderman? Adam Monroe? Plus there are numerous Buffy big bads like the Mayor. As well as Angel. Or even the big bads from Dark Angel seasons. I could keep listing, but I feel I've backed my vote up with some reasoning. Feel free to use it, hmorsey. No way is Ben the worst there is out there. No. Way.
hmorsey 03/23/08
I mentioned Angelus and the First from Btvs, but they were deemed unrealistic so i stuck with the human baddies...didn't even think of Sylar and Adam...great examples...oooh and DA...good call
gflm 03/24/08
Ben killed his own father, hello?!! How cold-blooded do you have to be to kill your own father?
boslen13 03/24/08
I think Ben is the most convincing evil I've seen on TV.. When he breaks on Juliet in "The Other Woman" - the crazy in his eyes as he says "You're mine!" and then shifts back to the calm, collected cool of "Take all the time you need". Gives me chills, that kind of crazy and cold evil all mixed up.
Nialle 03/24/08
Michael Emerson sells Ben's evil 100%, which puts him over the top for me. More Lost-people need to vote!
scarsandstories8 03/24/08
I forgot to mention Point Pleasant, as well. Devil's minion = much worse.
Carli 03/24/08
I think a person becomes a bigger villian if the things they are doing are actually realistic, which is why I would put several people from The Wire ahead of Ben like Clay Davis, Herc and Namon's mom! They all RUINED people's lives.
jkcampbell 03/26/08
I'm a little late to this one, but I think George Hearst on Deadwood was pretty scary. And real.
Elrah 06/12/08
scarsandstories8 , you'd have to be pretty ignorant to think any of the Heroes are more evil than Ben. Ben would run circles around Sylar that Sylar wouldn't even know what hit him. Sylar is just a guy who depends too much on his powers and that the best thing he can do without his powers is outsmart Maya which any numbskull can do. Plus, the acting on Heroes sucks.
Elrah 06/12/08
Also the thing that puts Ben over the top is that he doesn't have to depend on any power that would deem him evil. Buffy, while your examples are great, most of the character do relie on their powers. Neither of them are half manipulative nor unpredictable as Ben is. If they tried to do something to Ben, Ben would try to find a way to outsmart and they'll actually believe him. Lets put it this way, Ben Linus is the pretty much the Batman version of television. Convince me otherwise that any Buffy villain as done anything that's far more unpredictable than Ben when he said that he was Henry Gale, going to take Jack off the island, killing Goodwin, etc.
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