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babblingbrooke wins! OzzieAlThor forfeited.
Season 4 was the Weakest of Buffy's seven seasons
babblingbrooke said
The stinging loss of both Angel and Faith coming into the season, the loss of Oz early on, few episodes featuring Spike, and the introduction of Riley hurt bad--even the cast was at an all time low.
OzzieAlThor said
Seasong 6 was worse. It starts great with the return of Buffy and the revelation that the gang brought her from a much nicer place back to regular old Earth.
Then there isn't another memorable episode till "Once More, With Feeling" (Episode 7). I love that episode (like most everyone). Then AGAIN there is no memorable show till Riley's return (Ep. 15), the almost wedding (Ep. 16) and then Tara's death (Ep. 19).
Even the ending is unremarkable, "Oh gee, WIllow goes bad! There's a shocker most of us didn't see coming WAY back in Season 2 when she went nuts helping Angel get his soul back or in Season 4 and 5 when she obviously was deciding to try and use magic for everything".
And she got talked down by a crayon. A CRAYON.
And if these guys are your "Big Bad" for 3 quarters of the season then you have MAJOR problems. (even if I DO want the horn on their van. Hell, I want their van in general) http://new-place.org/six/guide/605.jpg
Season 4 Isn't the strongest, but there are many more memorable episodes in it then 6.
And don;t even get me started on the whole "I need to boink Spike to 'feel' " crap. Good lord, how redundant.
babblingbrooke said
While depressed Buffy was no fun, she was human--which has always been the strength of any Joss Whedon show, resonance.
The situation is similar with the crayon being what brings Willow back. Of course her oldest, and best friend would know what to do to bring her back. Willow's rage was the result of grief--once again a human aspect. Plus, she was tough.
As for the Trio, they were weak and kind of pathetic, but they were hilarious, and they kept the gang occupied. Invisible Buffy was entertaining (gone), and the tests they gave her made for an interesting competition.
If were talking in terms of baddie badness--even the trio could beat Adam. He was underwhelming following seasons that concluded with wicked Faith and the Mayor and before that Angelus, Drusilla, and Spike (kind of). The most threating person in season 4 was Maggie Walsh, and she dies early on.
In terms of memorable episodes season 4 is more limited than 6. It really only has Hush going for it in terms of amazing. 6 has not only the episodes you mentioned, but Tabula Rosa-Spike and Giles thinking they're related!-Gone, and Normal Again, going for it, comic, classic, or otherwise they are good!
OzzieAlThor said
Season 4 is better then yuou folks give it credit for. From Giles' feeling out of place and the comic hiliarty that ensued (seriously, the sombrero got the biggest laugh out of me in the entire series), Xander and Anya's relationship, Willow-Oz-Tara, the Taming of Spike (and the comic hilarity from that) and the finale that had Buffy dealing with the First Slayer there's a TON of quality character develpoment and just plain entertainment.
I'd suggest Hush and Once More with Feeling cancel eah other out in the the whole "This season had the best episode of the whole SERIES" so I won't go that route.
Season 4 has Spike/Buffy and the inculsion of Harmony, who we all know and love. Hell she got be a regular on Angel at the end of that show we liked her so much.
You have Willow making Giles go blind and more importantly making Spike and Buffy think they should get married. ("Wind beneath my wings at the reception" ='s LOL!)
You have Giles singing. No really. That was frickin AWESOME.
The 2 part return of Faith which also sets her down the path we see in Angel and Season 7 of Buffy.
And again the Finale which set the stage for the future and started to explain the past
babblingbrooke said
Aside from the a terrible big bad, the inclusion of Riley and the loss of much more quality characters and some of the worst episodes in Buffy history (Beer Bad, Where the Wild Things Are); season 4 also suffers from the lackof intrigue and rewatchabilty.
There is not a single instance in which we can truly fear that Buffy and the scoobies will not be able to smack down the big bad; every other season has at least one of those moments (season 1-the Master kills Buffy, season 2-Angel goes bad and joins forces with Spike and Drusilla also Buffy gets expelled, season 3-Faith teams up with the Mayor, murder, season 5-Glory captures Spike, gives Buffy and Willow beat downs, season 6-Willow starts killing people, defeats Buffy and Giles, season 7-Caleb shows up, UberVamps and legions of them, Buffy receives what should've been a mortal wound) season four has what? Adam gets skewers put into his arms?!
Even without the lack of a presence of evil conquering the world, there are not story lines worth living over and over again. It is nice that we meet Tara, and seeing Spike and Harmony is entertaining--but the two of them are far better on season five
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Comments
abridgma 04/28/08
Season 4 had the worst episodes in the whole series, Beer Bad and Where the Wild Things are. And it forced us to sit through Riley. And Adam may be the worst Big Bad ever. Pure lameness.
Season 6 had Tabula Rasa too. And Bad Willow was still awesome, even if we saw it coming. And I may be in a minority, but I thought the Trio was hilarious, a needed comic breath of air after the dourness of the season and after the uber-doomed-feeling of Glory the past season. And Xander's love stopped Willow. Saying a crayon stopped her would be like saying a dive stopped the end of the world in season 5.
Allimuffin 04/28/08
Season 4 just didn't have the oomph of the seasons before it, and the transition out of high school was a bit rough. Despite the season arc, 4 never really built towards anything really dramatic. There was way too much Riley, not enough Spike, and Adam never felt like a particularly threatening villain.
Season 6, as depressing as it is, felt like it was going somewhere. It really ended up being the darkest of the seasons, which is probably why it has so few fun or memorable episodes. Though it really meandered along until Tara's shocking death, the I felt the emphasis on the characters and the relationships between them made the season compelling. And besides, how can any Season with the most naked Spike scenes be the worst?
OzzieAlThor 04/28/08
I disagree about Season 6 having direction, it was very much like 4 where it had a slightly dis-combobulated feeling to it. The Master and The Mayor didn't feel totally "threating" either.
There was plenty of Spike by Mid-Season. It wouldn't have made any sense to do it differently.
Season 6 is still Dawn being a whiney **** and wanting attention.
And the crayon bit would be great if Xander was a compelling, beleivable character. Oh I understand, he is supposed to be the emotinal "base" of the group. Well, maybe make him a decent guy (one that doesn't leave women at the altar, isn't bigoted toward Angel and Spike even though he knows better, etc) and I'd care.
The big end of Season 6 is the worst. Xander isn't a nice guy. He's a selfish jerk. And Willow is a murderer... so she gets to be talked down and that's it because we all like her? Riiiiiight.
RobGrizzly 04/28/08
This is sort of a tough debate. I don't really like to zero in on Buffy's weaknesses. Both 4 and 6 are pretty bad. I hated Riley, and Adam. But it did have the Emmy nominated episode 'Hush." One of the best of the entire series.
I also hated the trio. As bad as Glory was, they were really lame. But that season had "Once More With Feeling". another Buffy Top 10-er.
I think its a draw.
randomlove36 04/28/08
I thought Adam was one of the weakest buffy villains so I'm going to have to vote for season 4.
Melissalane 04/28/08
I thought Season 6 was the most depressing season, and because of that it's the hardest to watch. However, I think 4 is the worst because it's a transition year--I miss the high school group with Angel, Cordelia, and Oz, and I hadn't yet grown to love Anya or Tara (though I eventually did, big-time).
Plus, Adam was the worst Big Bad, and how lame were Riley and the Initiative? Yawn.
HoneyBunny 04/28/08
Hated Season 6. Awful Big Wimps as pseudo villians. Spike becoming Buffy's b*&^%. Willow losing everything. Always felt "Once More With Feeling" was overrated. Recently turned in the #6 DVD collection to get store credit.
slayergal 04/28/08
Season 6 has a really good theme -- the evil trio, while lame, is supposed to be, because they're not the threat. The threat is within the Scooby gang and themselves. Season 4 has Beer Bad, the worst episode besides "Praying Mantis Teacher," as well as Doomed and the first two episodes, which are, in the fairest terms, a trainwreck. Season 4 has my all time favorite episode, Restless, but Season 6 is much better in terms of the characters and their individual arcs.
LauraT 04/29/08
Okay, I wasn't crazy about season 4, but I hated 6 even more. Killing Tara (tragic, true), the idiotic villains, and the way Buffy treated Spike ... what does it say of a season when you start to HATE the title character of a show? I know she had reason to be upset, but stil...
Melissalane 04/29/08
While I think Season 4 is the worst, I do wonder why 6 is the only one being considered as its competition. For example, I loved how Season 7 got started, but by the end the Slayerettes were taking up so much screen time I barely got to see my favorites! Also, that was the season where suddenly Willow, Buffy, and Xander--with no explanation whatsoever--could suddenly all communicate telepathically. And then there's Kennedy . . .
bluetenille 04/30/08
Why does most everyone keep hatin' on S4?!?!?
I adore it.
loglady 04/30/08
i pick season 4 only because my absolute favorite episode (not named once more with feeling that is) is tabula rasa...i'd put those 2 hours of buffy up against any other 2 back to back eps as the best....otherwise i did really like season 4....
OzzieAlThor 05/01/08
There's never a point in any of these shows where we "fear" for the Scoobies till Season 7 since we knew that was the end. ANd then only "extended family" Scoobies died anyway.
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