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huzzah wins! huzzah beat charinator 18 to 8
The 90s was the best decade for television.
charinator said
The 90s saw the launch of the best collection of TV shows of any decade ever. Just to name a few:
Seinfeld
Friends
Fresh Prince
X-Files
Buffy
Sex and the City
Family Matters
Law & Order (though the show will probably continue into perpetuity)
...and the list goes on
huzzah said
Law & Order debuted in 1990 which was technically the 80s...
But seriously, I can't agree, I'm afraid. For starters, the concept of a "decade" of TV -- or most anything else, for that matter -- is a pretty arbitrary grouping. Does a series' premier date dictate to which decade it belongs? Does a show that begins in 1998 and ends in 2008 count as a 90s show? Should it not be considered to be in the same group as a 2002 premier every bit as much as a 1994 premier? I mean, 2000 was the midpoint for Buffy the Vampire Slayer. Sex and the City ran more after 2000 than before. Are these truly "90s" shows?
I've been a TV junkie for pretty much all my 29 years, but I enjoy it now more than ever. The Office, 30 Rock, How I Met Your Mother, House, Lost, Family Guy, South Park, Chappelle's Show, Aqua Teen Hunger Force, Robot Chicken, The Boondocks, CSI, Monk, Psych, Eureka, Battlestar Galactica, 24, Stargate -- SG-1 & Atlantis, Alias, Angel, Firefly, etc, etc. And no, I don't actually watch all of those.
Oh, yeah -- American Idol, Survivor, any other quality reality TV...There's more good TV out now than ever before.
charinator said
Well I'm not sure I agree that 1990 is part of the 80s, despite technical arguments on when time began.
And for purposes of this throwdown, I'm saying shows that launched in the 90s (1990-1999) were the best shows of all time. As for the grouping, I disagree that such a distinction is arbitrary. The time a show comes out has a big impact on how that show will fare. For example, many argue that Firefly would not have been canceled had it not come out during a time when Joe Millionaire and dozens of other reality TV shows were considered good entertainment. But that's another matter entirely.
Getting back to my original argument...the 90s shows as a whole were much more creative and much more entertaining than what's coming out now. Sure there are a few diamonds (like The Office, 24, Lost), but overall this decade's shows lack ingenuity. Fortunately the latter half of this decade has turned away from the crap idea that reality tv shows are awesome, but that's not enough to salvage what overall has been a pretty subpar decade.
huzzah said
I agree there's a huge difference between 1991 and 2007, but the difference between 1999 and 2001 is negligible. My point is this: Family Guy premiered in 1999 but was canceled in 2000, was given a reprieve but then canceled again in 2002, and then brought back in 2005. Is it a 90s or 2000s show?
I think Firefly actually came out a couple of years too early. At the time it debuted, sci-fi programming was pretty much nonexistent; the biggest sci-fi shows at the time were The X-Files, which had just ended, and Stargate: SG-1, which was just switching from premium channel Showtime to the Sci-Fi channel. The X-Files was more of a mystery show with sci-fi elements and Stargate never had the viewers required by a major network. It may have succeeded if aired during X-Files' heyday with that show as a lead-in, but then it may have lacked the special effects for which it won an Emmy. It may have succeeded today now that LOST has reopened more people to sci-fi in general.
And the TV infrastructure is so much better today. We have DVRs, HDTV, OnDemand, twice the channels producing shows, twice the channels in general, 16:9 broadcasts...Check out my comment from 4/7 below.
charinator said
Technology and more channels does not mean great shows... Sure there are a lot more channels to choose from, but really, is there any creative difference between OC Housewives, Hogan Knows Best, Wife Swap, Big Brother, Next Top Model, or The Hills? On average, these are the shows to choose from on a nightly basis from some of the major channels... So yes, there are more channels. But in terms of options, there is no difference of what you get when you go from channel to channel. In the 90s there was 1 reality show that comes to mind (Real World). But this decade has seen more than a slew of them.
Ultimately when you compare the bulk this decade's shows to the 90s, you get 00's reality shows v. 90's shows of more creativity and value.
But if everybody thinks shows like Rock of Love are groundbreaking... then I can say no more.
huzzah said
I'd argue that the 90s saw its fair share of dreck. If you discounted reality TV, it was probably not that much better that the present. You're just going to be less likely to remember the bad ones. Just like I hadn't thought about Joe Millionaire in years until it was mentioned here. Recent bad shows are fresh in our memories; 10 years from now we won't remember them at all.
I agree with ABCSoaps and loglady below; we are overlooking earlier decades. And if I haven't been clear, let me reiterate: I'll accept that the average show today, especially reality shows, may be worse than the average show in the 90s. The posited Throwdown stated, "The 90s was the best decade for television." Not "had better shows". I have to include the medium as a whole, not just the shows airing. The technology has had a huge impact; I think you're too quick to discount its effect on the state of television.
Basically, TV is only worse now if you can find fewer shows you like. With the surge in niche channels, most anyone can find something at most any time of day. I wouldn't like Rock Of Love. The great thing about TV right now is that I have 150 other options instead of 20.
Like this throwdown?
Episode Recaps
Poll: Cop shows (Part 2)
What was the best cop show on TV from 1998 to 2008?
From EW.com
Comments
RobGrizzly 04/05/08
I think what is meant is the bulk of the decade's television, regardless of start date- in which case, I'd have to agree; I can't stand half the stuff that's on right now
demetrithegreek 04/06/08
Huzzah, you had me on your side until you put Survivor and Family Guy in a list of quality television.
Here are a couple of other 90s All Stars charinator forgot to mention:
- Sports Night
- The Simpsons
- King of the Hill
- News Radio
- Northern Exposure
cassidy 04/06/08
this is just a "technicality" question...why is 1990 part of the 80's?
demetrithegreek 04/07/08
Yeah, good point. Why is that?
loglady 04/07/08
i would make 1990 part of the 80's as far as tv and movies go, only because the planning and lag time to make said show/film would have begun in the late part of 89....that's just my take on it
and did you forget to include the best show ever
twin peaks?????
technically 1990, so by my own logic the 80's, but no show is more 90's
huzzah 04/07/08
The first year was not year zero, but year 1. So the first decade was years 1-10, the second years 11-20, and so on. But, hey, that probably helps char's argument since the year 200o was technically in the 90s...
Really, though, this is my point. It's such an arbitrary line to draw, as if a year or two's difference magically makes a show better or worse.
Demetri, why would the Simpsons, a show that debuted in the 80s, played constantly to the present, and will likely not end until the 2010s (if that) be considered a "90s" show? Just because that was its heyday or something? And I've never watched Survivor. I love Family Guy, though I can understand why it doesn't appeal to everyone. My point was largely that there are plenty of highly entertaining shows out there. Apart from the game show variety, I really wouldn't watch any reality shows if it weren't for my wife. But there are a few, like AI, that I moderately enjoy. And if someone loves reality shows, there are plenty of them to watch. If someone hates them, there are plenty of scripted shows to watch.
I mean, it's not just ABC, CBS, NBC and the fledgling FOX networks anymore. The CW, TNT, FX, USA, and SciFi all are putting out their own original programming now. The big networks aren't ceding any time slot; they pretty much compete in each one. And if you somehow can't find anything on there to watch, odds are you can find something enjoyable on the Food Network or Discovery Channel or something.
I'll agree that there's a ton of crappy shows out there. The percentage of quality shows may have dropped over the past few years. But the number of channels available has exploded, as has the amount of new shows on these channels. In the 90s, I would have been able to find something enjoyable to watch every night. Now, though, I have to choose things *not* to watch. Counting my Media Center edition of XP on my computer, I have 3 DVRs at home. I find myself deleting some shows I think I'd enjoy because there aren't enough hours in the week, even including weekends, in which to watch them and still have time for work, sleep, and basic familial interaction.
So, while the average TV show may be worse that a decade ago, the state of TV as a medium is, I'd say, every bit as strong as it ever was.
ABCSOAPS55 04/08/08
well it definetly was a decade full of diverse shows and a decade that had something for everyone---from the traditonal family sitcoms like "Full house", "step by step" and "home improvement" to the more challenging, in your face sitcoms that hoped to break ground and cover contorversial topics like "Grace under fire", "roseanne", "cybill" and "murphy brown". We also had the hip NBC must see shows like "Friends", "mad about you", "frasier" and "will and grace". If drama was your thing you could turn to quirky fare like "northern exposure", "chicago hope", ally mcbeal" or "boston public", or the more gritty fare like "nypd blue", "er", "law and order" or "the practice". There was also it's share of bad shows like "Shasta McNasty", , "Beverly hills 90210", "Models Inc.," "Homeboys from outerspace" and nearly everything else that aired on UPN.
You also had an explosion of cable series like "Strong Medicne" or "the Division" on Lifetime, "Six Feet Under" or 'Sex and The City" on HBO, "Dream On" on Showtime, Disney's "Avonlea" and even classic tv available on Nick and Nite and TV Land.
I wouldn't say the 90's was the best decade ever for tv, but it was certainly one of the most diverse decades with countless options to choose from.
huzzah 04/08/08
ABCSOAPS, I would argue that as far as diversity and options are concerned the 90s are no where near the level of today. For starters, the majority of the "great 90s shows" mentioned so far are airing in syndication. There are several channels that almost exclusively show syndicated reruns of shows from the 80s,90s, and 2000s.
boidiva02 04/08/08
Well my point was simply that there was a lot to choose from in the 1990's and that there really was something for everyone... But i agree there is a lot to choose from today as well.
ABCSOAPS55 04/08/08
Well my point was that in the 1990's there was a lot to choose from and there was seemingly something for everyone... but yes there is a lot to choose from today as well
(btw, yes i am also boidiva02), i logged into the wrong account at first.
PopCereal 04/09/08
1990 is the 90's, plain and simple. If we're going to break it down to when a story for a series was created or conceived, then you're opening a can of worms. It's like saying that Orson Welles' Macbeth wasn't one of the best films of the 40's, because Shakespeare came up with the idea back in the 1600's.
loglady 04/09/08
actually 1990 mathematically is not part of the 90's...remember all the to do around the new century when 2000 hit??? i merely see 90's tv as starting in 1991 for a different reason than math...mine is just as arbitrary...and it wasn't about conception, but actual real lag time in production....
TV Fanatic 04/09/08
I don't see why we're getting into a mathematical or technical discussion on what constitutes a decade. The throwdown is clearly that the 90s shows were the best of any decade..... so if it starts with a 9, it's the 90s. And by far, 90s had the best shows compared to the stuff they got on now
ABCSOAPS55 04/10/08
It depends on what you mean by "best"--- because in the 70's and 80's TV had a lot of excellent, quality shows--- "All In The Family", "Maude' (and any other Norman Lear series), "In The Heat Of The Night", "Family Ties", "Cheers" and countless others---all of which were ground-breaking, quality television, all of which were hits and influenced pop culture in the time as did "friends", "fraser", "Er" and others in the 1990's.
loglady 04/10/08
good point ABC--everyone here (myself included) is focusing on 90's v 00's when we are all really overlooking the (first?) golden age of television in the late 70's and throughout the 80's.
Alynda 04/10/08
Did someone say "Fresh Prince" with a straight face? That's all I wanna know.
Alynda 04/10/08
Oh Lord, I just saw "Family Matters" on that list. I'm afraid I'm embarrassed FOR you, Charinator.
charinator 04/10/08
Hey Fresh Prince and Family Matters were great! :)
ABCSOAPS55 04/23/08
family matters and fresh prince are nowhere near great television shows--anyone that mentions them in the same sentence as Seinfield, Law & Order and Friends need to be re-educated about what makes great television.
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