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Heartbreaker
Kittens, if it weren't too darn hot, I'd break out the widow's weeds, because after tonight's performance show I'd say that Mark… -
So You Think You Can Dance: You'll Sleep When You're Dead
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Battlestar Galactica: Best Episode
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So You Think You Can Dance: The Kids Are Alright
This Throwdown is under way. You can vote at any time.
Talent shows are the worst form of television.
demetrithegreek said
I have no problem with certain forms of reality television. Documentary series like Deadliest Catch and Addiction are very good. Even certain competition shows like Top Chef and The Amazing Race are fun to watch.
Unfortunately the most popular form of reality TV is also the most soul crushing and least fun to watch. Talent shows have taken over television, and I can't think of one of these series that is worth my time.
I will give Idol all of the credit in the world for being popular, and an obviously important part of pop culture, but the show is insufferable and boring. Worse yet, Idol has spawned a slew of copy cats that are far worse than any sin Idol could committ on it's own.
Here's a partial list of the garbage Idol has spawned: The New StarSearch, America's Got Talent, Rock Star, The Next Great American Inventor, So You Think You Can Dance, Dancing With the Stars, The Next Best Thing, Celebrity Duets, Skating With Celebrities, Rock the Cradle.
Sins - each and every one of them!
Kath said
Talent shows? The 'worst' form of television? Surely you jest.
Talent shows work because they always deliver good singing, or dancing, or whatever the focus is. You can turn on the TV and see and hear reasonably good people do things that take more skill and practice than, say, making out in a hot tub, or reading tepid lines to a laugh track. If you find that boring, maybe you just don't like watching people sing or dance. That's your right. I don't like sitcoms. That's mine.
Even if you don't like talent shows, they're FAR from the worst thing on TV. You can rattle off a list of crappy shows in any genre, not just talent.
Try dating. Partial list of the garbage dating shows have spawned: Joe Millionaire, The Littlest Groom, Mr. Personality, Date My Mom, Flavor of Love, I Love New York, A Shot of Love with Tila Tequila, Playing It Straight, Age of Love, Average Joe, Paradise Hotel, For Love or Money...
Or how about game shows? Are You Smarter Than a 5th Grader is only the tip of the iceberg.
And I started a list of the garbage sitcoms that litter TV history, but about halfway through it I realized that there was no way it would fit into 1200 characters
demetrithegreek said
First off, let's leave MTV out of it. You can't expect me to have any kind of logical defense for a network that openly caters to 18-year-olds. Secondly, how can you say anything bad about The Littlest Groom? He was adorable and he captured my heart.
Now on to your claim that sitcoms are awful...WTF! You would seriously watch a man with his hand up a puppet's butt sing "Coming to America" rather than 30 Rock or the Office or My Name is Earl? I almost think we should stop this throwdown. I shouldn't be allowed to argue with the mentally handicapped.
Certainly there have been bad sitcoms, but bad sitcoms are very different from good sitcoms. I am not sure what differentiates a good talent show from a bad one. They all have an audience of screaming idiots. They all have the same three judges (a cool guy, a chick, and a foreigner). They all start with three weeks of "audition shows." They contribute nothing positive to society. Do we really need to award a ventriloquist for anything? And I don't need another Clay Aiken or Chris Daughtry. One of each is one too many, thank you.
Kath said
I'm not mentally handicapped, thank you very much. Leave the ad hominem attacks out of this.
And would you seriously rather watch According to Freaking Jim than Dancing With The Stars? See, I can make the "Compare atrocious example to X to shining example of Y" argument too!
Good talent shows are different from bad talent shows for one big reason: chops. A man half-heartedly singing Coming to America with a puppet is very likely low on said chops (although I haven't seen it; he could have been Pavarotti.) Having attended my share of recitals, concerts, revues, and other performances over the years, I can attest that the people on the "better" shows do have talent.
The chance to hear talented people doing what they enjoy and are good at? I think that's a positive element of society.
I do agree with you that ventriloquists are pushing it.
demetrithegreek said
Actually, I would rather watch According to Jim than Dancing With the Stars, because Dancing with the Stars really is that bad. What you're watching aren't even really talent shows. They are popularity contests.
Listen, every one can do something well. That doesn't mean I want to see it done over and over again by different people. Take "On the Lot" for example. I watched the first few weeks and there were some entertaining short films. Then you realize that you are going to have to sit through 12 of these things before anything is decided. Quite frankly, I don't care that much.
Finally, someone below mentioned the fun of talent shows is you can watch them with the whole family. I say that is garbage. TV I watch with my kids is the stuff that is meant for my kids (for instance Dancing With the Stars). The stuff I watch alone (24, 30 Rock, Eli Stone) or with my wife (The Office, Reaper) are the things that I really love.
Like this throwdown?
Episode Recaps
Poll: Cop shows (Part 2)
What was the best cop show on TV from 1998 to 2008?
From EW.com
Comments
ellie 05/21/08
You lost my vote with the dating shows comment. I'm sorry, but shows like Blind Date and Shipmates are just too funny.
Kath 05/21/08
Hey now. I didn't say all dating shows were bad. My point was that you can take any genre and rattle off plenty of crappy shows that it spawned.
RobGrizzly 05/21/08
Talent shows consistnetly deliver BAD singing and dancing up until the finals. Dating shows are just as bad, but implying that shows like Making the Band is better television than a good sitcom is a dubious claim. In what world are talent shows better that classics like Seinfeld or Friends?
Kath 05/21/08
I never said sitcoms were awful, just that I don't choose to watch them on a regular basis. But given the choice, I would sooner watch Dancing with the Stars than, say, According to Jim, as would most people with their sanity intact. (See, I can make the good X = bad Y fallacy too!)
There's a simple barometer in sorting out good vs. bad talent shows: chops. Having attended my share of revues, concerts, recitals, etc. over the years, I can say that the people on these shows have chops. They've got the talent. And I believe that talented people inherently contribute to society.
I do, however, agree that ventriloquism is pushing it.
The Counteragent 05/21/08
See, this is a little difficult, because dating shows are probably a little worse, but I really, really like them (enough to be creating one next semester), and I really, really hate talent shows, especially American Idol. Also, even though dating shows are usually really gross and insulting to intelligence, I feel talent shows have done more to create a society in which only fame is valued and therefore everyone has to get on TV/YouTube to be a worthy citizen, and I'm really not on board with that.
Melissalane 05/21/08
I actually think talent shows are the least harmful form of reality TV, aside from really smart, interesting, off-beat documentary shows like Showtime's "This American Life." Families can watch shows like "American Idol" together. Idol may not be "cool." (OK, it certainly isn't.) The lameness is what I love best, though. I went to the concert last year, and it was the least pretentious show I've ever been to--grandparents and kids were there, you could turn to your neighbor and instantly have something to talk about . . . it was fantastic!
I know some people can't embrace that kind of lameness. Still, I can't accept fun, poppy, harmless shows like that one as the lowest form of entertainment--especially when other reality shows are actually, in my opinion, harmful. "Tila Tequila"? It'd be great to have a thought-provoking show about sexual orientation on TV, but this is definitely not that show. It's offensive, and, frankly, embarrassing. "The Real World"? That used to be fantastic drama about stereotype and clashing worldviews. Now it's about being pretty in a hot tub. By the way, I know these are MTV shows, but I don't see how Demitri should be able to just "leave MTV out of it" when MTV produces some of the worst shows ever. It used to produce actual music, and that's a problem in and of itself.
And it isn't just MTV. Look at other Fox shows, such as "The Moment of Truth." There, instead of people trying to become musicians for money (as with Idol), people are selling their integrity and trading in their families and friends. And what about "Fear Factor" and other gross-out shows? Also, I know Kath was berated for mentioning dating shows, and while I agree some are entertaining, I think shows that end with a marriage proposal, like "The Bachelor" are so harmful. This is not love--making out with various strangers and hoping the guy will pick you(!) out of a group.
Finally, may I submit "The Swan" for your consideration? Getting insecure women to have dangerous, painful, unnecessary sugery and then forcing them to compete in a beauty pageant? Talk about low.
t3hdow 05/21/08
After reading everyone's comments, this is a tough one for me to decide.
I agree that I don't want to replace scripted TV with talent competitions. Although there is an audience for those kinds of programs, I find most of them to be quite boring and I'm personally biased against any show that involves singing or dancing. Still, besides a few off-note incidents every so often (like the numerous scandals behind American Idol off camera), it's harmless. On the other hand, other categories of reality TV is often filled with trash, though I admit that I indulge in some of the shameless pandering. I'll never watch an episode of "My Super Sweet 16" or any of the "Flavor of Love" shows without getting pissed off at our society, yet find shows like "Fear Factor" and "The Moment of Truth" amusing (if only because they signed up to look like fools on national TV). At least with a few competition based shows like ANTM and Survivor, it's a perfect medium between the snore inducing former group and the horrific hedonism of the latter one.
The Counteragent 05/21/08
I forgot about "The Swan"--or rather, blocked out that there had been such shows that advocated plastic surgery and gave little girls the message that no matter what they look like, it's not good enough. Yeah, as much as I loathe AI, that's kinda worse.
demetrithegreek 05/22/08
To be fair, the ugly little girls should get plastic surgery.
ellie 05/22/08
The Swan ended up being a beauty contest, right? Don't those fall in the Talent Show category?
Melissalane 05/22/08
I wouldn't call "The Swan" a talent show, unless it was which plastic surgeon made the girls look the least freaky.
ellie 05/22/08
The Swan definitely had a pageant. There were judges and prizes awarded. That sounds like a talent show.
Melissalane 05/22/08
OK, OK, I know I'm being nitpicky here. But a "talent" show is different from a "beauty pageant." Talent and beauty are not one and the same, especially when the beauty is not natural. The way those girls ended up looking had nothing to do with any sort of talent they themselves possessed. It was the surgeon's talent, if anyone's, and I think that's stretching it.
Also, if "talent shows" and "beauty pageants" were the same, then the "Miss America" pageant wouldn't need a talent section; the entire show would be considered a talent show.
cynthia 05/22/08
Sorry but According to Jim does indeed suck more than dancing with the stars. Plus So you think you can dance and America's Best Dance Crew rock!
Melissalane 05/22/08
I agree, Cynthia. The JabbaWockeez were unreal good!
t3hdow 05/23/08
Even with my hatred of dancing/singing competitions, you still couldn't pay me to watch According to Jim over a So You Think You Can Dance?/Dancing with the Stars/American Idol episode. At least the unintentional humor of that trio will trump what According to Jim's writers try to cook up.
Sdca4life 05/23/08
I HATE AMERICAN IDOL... yet love So You Think You Can Dance..
so i'm torn...
RocketQueen 05/24/08
"WELL WE ALL JUST WANNA BE BIG ROCKSTARS...." At least I do!(And a Top Model, and a Ballroom dancer, and the star of Lloyd Webber's next musical...) So X Factor, Strictly Come Dancing/Dancing with the Stars - Same thing, Im in the UK so its called Strictly here - and the various Top Model shows are just a wee bit of fantasy escapism for me when he's at work.A chance for me to sit on the couch as judge jury & executioner saying "I can do that...I'm SO MUCH better than that one etc etc" Generally I think the British Reality shows are much better than their American counterparts EG. SO bored with 'Idol', and any on MTV are plain halfwitted but I don't know...Guess its my guilty pleasure! (Though I would rather slit my own throat than watch Bret Michael's as he pits those poor luvstruck hos against each other to become his soulmate - GAG!!)
Johnny82 05/25/08
I'd like you to meet some of my friends "Keeping up with the Kardasians", "Simple Life", "The Osbournes", and whatever Britney's reality show was.
The worst shows on television are the reality "sitcom" shows and not only are they the worst shows on television they spawn crap like TMZ which covers the non talented versions of these celebrities.
Bri 06/19/08
The worst shows on television aren't talent reality shows...although there are some bad ones...the worst shows are the reality shows like The Bachelor, Simple Life, The Hills, Rock of Love, and basically any reality show on MTV and VH1. All those shows are about are celebrities trying to stay in the spotlight and people who become famous for being famous..at least with shows like American Idol, the people have talent.
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